Condo rules not allowing bike storage in dwelling units Toronto.

I made big fabric carrying case for my $2500+ Trek road bike, and I put the bike inside for trips up and down the elevator. Haven't had any problems.

Honestly, that is so bad that you'd own a $200,000 condo and couldn't keep a bicycle in your own home.

Such actions by condo boards should be unlawful as they are discriminatory.

I suggested to the condo board that during the transport of the bike in and out of the building, I would use the stairs not the elevators and place two garbage bags around the tires until I was outside so they don't use the argument of possible tire markings on the wall.

I can just put the garbage bags in my back pack afterwards and I will get the zip tie ones so it would be easier to hug the tire without falling off during transport.

I think I'm being extremely reasonable with them they told me they will get back to me in a week. So time will tell I guess but if they say no I will have to pursue it further and hope that I have some options legally.

Cheers and thanks for the suggestions.

Bikes4Life

Hm. What can they really do if you keep your bike in your condo? Are they going to enter your condo and check it for bikes? Are there cameras everywhere recording whether you bring it into the building and elevator? Can they fine you or something?

You see where I'm going with this....in order for them to enforce this rule they have intrude on your privacy/spy on you in a pretty heavy way... and that puts them into questionable legal territory... just because you want to keep your possessions in your own condo.

And so what if you make a few tire marks here and there (you should see the wall near my apt door!). They can be cleaned off - just like any other normal everyday dirt etc that all residents bring in sooner or later. Sheesh - you are paying fees for maintenance - how much can a few Magic Erasers cost?

A lot of these boards are not within their legal rights to ban these things and simply rely on intimidation. Before you go ahead and fold, get them to write you a fine and then take your documents to a real estate lawyer for actual relevance.

Hello everyone,

I figured I would update you with my progress to what has been happening regarding the bike storage problem. A major part of the problem is that the Ontario Liberal (McGuinty) government will not provide condominium owners more rights and as such have terminated a private members bill for second passage into law. The liberals pretend to agree with owners by letting the bill pass the first hearing but then kill the bill during the second reading. All the more reason the Liberal government needs to be evicted themselves from government in the next election....they no longer are in touch with the needs of the Ontario people. Do we not pay enough tax for the simple pleasure of keeping my own bike safe from theft in my own apartment?

Below I have enclosed emails with responses from Councilor Adam Vaughan and MPP NDP Mr. Rosario Marchese. They both responded to my questions regarding why I am not allowed to store my own bike in my own condominium unit in a prompt and courteous manner. MPP Rosario Marchese has been trying with best efforts to change this but the Liberals have stopped him. The Liberals are clearly anti rights for condo owners and as such automatically anti-bike.

I think I will be contacting Mr. Dalton McGuinty directly for a written response to find out why I am not allowed to keep my bike in my apartment and why he objects to rule changes that would essentially provide the people of Ontario peace of mind for storing their bike in their own dwelling unit. I will post in the future whether or not Dalton McGuinty responds to my email.

As per MPP Marchese request, I will be contacting him by phone to see what can be done to have the law changed regarding safe keeping of our own bikes in our own units.

I would also like to point out that this issue also hurts bikes businesses from future bike sales.

Cheers,
Bikes4Life

Below are two emails from both representatives

Email from Councilor Adam Vaughan May 17th 2011:

Dear xxxx,

Thank you for your e-mail and for getting in touch with me regarding this issue.

The new zoning standard for condominium buildings, which took effect a few years ago, require secure indoor bicycle parking for residents. Unfortunately, District Lofts was approved prior to these new requirements.

In regards to the regulations around bringing a bicycle into a condominium building, under the current provincial legislation governing condominiums, a condo board has the ability to set these types of rules governing the building at this time.

MPP Rosario Marchese, who is the provincial representative for this area, has been working on recommendations to change the Condominium Act to better reflect residents' needs. I would suggest getting in touch with his office on this matter. They can be reached at rmarchese-co@ndp.on.ca.

Please do not hesitate to contact me with further questions.

Best regards,
Adam Vaughan

Councillor Adam Vaughan
Ward 20, Trinity-Spadina

Email from MPP Rosario Marchese May 16th, 2011:

Dear xxxx,

Thank you for your email.

I think it would be easier to discuss this over the phone, because I
have a few questions I'd like to ask before I do some research into
this.

My sense is that condo boards are able to decide what by-laws to enact,
as long as they don't violate city, provincial or federal laws. In the
case of bikes, it may be that they're allowed to ban them inside.

I will do some research around this to determine if the board's actions
are legal, and what steps you can take to resolve the issue. Usually,
if an owner has a problem with a board, they can either challenge the
board on the issue (writing a letter, mediation, arbitration) or they
can challenge the issue at a board meeting and vote in a new by-law.

Our office receives a lot of emails and phone calls from people across
the province who don't know where to turn to when they have a
disagreement with their board, developer or property manager. MPP
Rosario Marchese has been fighting for amendments to the Condominium Act
for the past four years. One important amendment he has been fighting
for would make settling disputes straight-forward, affordable and
timely. His most current condo bill, Bill 79, passed a second reading,
but was recently voted against in committee (read more here
http://www.rosariomarchese.ca/content/view/169/57/).

Please phone me at 416-603-9664 so we can discuss the particulars of
what's happening, and I can look into what steps you can take to resolve
this issue.

Thanks again for your email,

Jesse Doehler-Knox

MPP Rosario Marchese
Trinity-Spadina
416-603-9664
www.RosarioMarchese.ca/condos

Sounds like some fairly encouraging responses from the local politicians.

I'm not sure what tax-paying has to do with decisions about condominium self-governance, but have you checked if Hudak's platform explicitly calls for overruling it? I have a spidey sense that people that vote Conservative and people that don't like bicycles overlap somewhat.

@Anthony I should have included maintenance fees as well to taxes paid, but my point is that I pay my property tax just like my friend who owns a house and is able to store his bike on his property without having to get permission to do so it's a bike not a gun....oh wait you're allowed to keep that in your condo. Just my opinion.

Now that you mention it, I will send an email to Tim Hudak as well to see what his opinion is on this matter.

Cheers.

My point is, you need to find the right argument to push. Language like 'tax-payer' gets used for "I paid my money, I deserve my share" type arguments. That might not work well if you're in a minority, as the counter argument is the same as the condo board is already using: "We outnumber you, we're richer than you, we pay more taxes than you, and we don't want it".

This is why minority groups have to push a different set of arguments - the 'human rights', 'good for the community', 'these laws are inconsistent' or 'what if everyone did it this way' approaches.

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What if you just bring your bike into your condo anyway? What can they do - fine you, sue you? It may not be worth the hassle for them to go to those lengths, and if they did, you could go to the media and bring attention to this issue. "I can keep a gun in my condo but not a bike" would definitely get attention. There are lot of condo owners in Ontario and many of them probably have similar gripes. Hell, I rent and I doubt the landlord could forbid bikes in the apt (they can't forbid pets, which are easily messier than bikes, and it's a nightmare to get a pet-hoarder evicted, a bike is small potatoes in comparison).

One thing I've learned in my 43 years is that sometimes you do have to break the rules, and often you can get away with it. Of course you have to pick your battles and not be a jerk about it, but rule-breaking has its place. Keeping your bike in your own condo is a totally reasonable thing to do. So do it. Let the chips fall where they may.

There are dual-baby strollers that take up way more square footage than a bicycle.

The protests that got bicycles allowed in the Montreal Metro involved people taking large, cumbersome (but legal) objects on the subway, documenting it, and getting some press.

Spoke with Mr. Machese's office (Jessie) and they are going to see if there have been any court precedence regarding this bike issue, perhaps someone has gone to court and won and we don't know it yet.

This weekend I will send two emails to McGuinty and Hudak to see what their response is.

My first question why can I store a gun if I had one in my condo and not my bike? Along with many more tough questions......I'm anxious for his response.

I will keep this board updated with the details on everything, once I start something I don't stop until it's finished.

Cheers.

If you're allowed a pet, something with it's own will that can defecate, urinate and bark in the building when it chooses then what harm is a bicycle?

Have you raised this at a condominium board meeting yet? If not, try that first. If they don't accept that, you could also consider raising the issue of improving the security of your bicycle parking facilities. One way to deal with this is to ask the board if it has considered what its own liability is if a bicycle is stolen from the facilities that it provides. (I don't know if they are exposed or not, but at least consider this.)

If your board won't work with you, your other option is to run for a position on the board and try to change things from the inside. Start going to board meetings, get to know your neighbours and all of the things that they are unhappy with - you probably can't run on this one issue alone.

I don't know how far you'd get by taking the condo corporation to court. One poster mentioned discrimination - yes, it is, but not on any of the grounds (race, disability, etc.) that would make it actionable. Condo boards have a lot of authority when it comes to enforcing bylaws.

If this sounds like a lot of work to you, well, have you considered a folding bicycle? Bike friday makes some decent sporty models.

Your other option is to get the bike you want, be diligent about locking it, and see whether you have a problem in the first place. I lock my bicycle up outside of my office building every day and the only thing that ever went missing was my top tube pad. There are a bunch of nice bikes parked there.

"If you're allowed a pet, something with it's own will that can defecate, urinate and bark in the building when it chooses then what harm is a bicycle?"

I agree 110%.

Currently living at a condo that allows pets (which is annoying in its own right) yet disallows bicycles to be brought inside and stored on the balcony. Absurd!

Needless to say people still do it (thankfully) and condo mgmt isn't too strict....if I am ever troubled I will cause a sh!tstorm for sure, and bring up the pet comparison...especially the annoying little yapper that barks all night in the unit beside mine!

Well I actually support the right of the Condo Board to set rules like this. The rules tend to be clearly in place and you know what you are getting into. Their argument is bikes tend to scratch walls and damage things. I support this one the same grounds that some buildings try to be pet free. From first hand experience from a condo on Mainland that allowed bikes, this is true.

My building doesn't permit bikes into units, I will consider in the future to petition them to change this rule. The board process is pretty democratic and I also believe I have a good chance to get on the board, so rather than just complaining petition the board for what you want to achieve and argue how this is a benefit to a building rather then a negative. Since I did get support for some minor changes in my building before, I believe this could be accomplished.

At the same time I know some residents will want to take their e-bikes into their units since they are bikes, that is for example a stipulation I would be against.

So what's your point, Pedal Pusher? That Bikes4Life should suck it up and leave his bike in a risky location and let the chips fall where they may?

Not at all. All I am saying those rules exist for a reason.
But rather than trying to solve it politically solve it with your condo board. Talk to some people on the board and you may find that they will be quite willing to bring this issue up and get this changed. It's one of those rules that is there because it's standard procedure. Ultimately the people that live in the building decide what the rules are.

Recommending that you ignore the rules completely is generally a bad idea and a method of making yourself a pariah to your neighbors.

No MPP will take on this issue unless there is something in it for them, something worth the opportunity cost of not working on some other issue. So I don't think this is an effective strategy for Bikes4Life.

It's a lot easier for B4L's condo board to just say "no" than to re-write the rules etc. The board might even be OK with bikes in condos, but too lazy to actually implement the change. B4L can try this, but again I don't think it will work.

Both scenarios require B4L to wait to get permission to store his private property within his private property. It's a powerless, passive position, and it always sucks to be in that position.

However, like I said, judicious rule-breaking has its place. It puts the onus on the condo board to solve the problem, to take action (and I'll bet there is very little they can actually do). In the meantime, B4L gets to store his bike in a secure location, which solves his problem right now. It's a victimless non-crime.

I'm sure my neighboors that smoke in stair wells feel the same.
If no one cares about it it's easy enough to change. If he moved in there he agreed to live there by the rules.

I have a problem by entitlement that some cyclists push, which in turn pushes cyclists to the fringes. With the traffic violations I see on every commute I always assume that every bike car collision I see is the cyclists fault unless the evidence shows otherwise. I'm not exactly worried about cars in traffic since with very few notable exceptions drivers have given me plenty of space. How ever I keep encountering cyclists on cellphones riding the wrong way on the street.

I say this as someone that commutes by bike year around, through every blizzard and every storm.

IF you want to go around inconveniences due it with in the rules. If you can't bring a bike into your unit, bring a frame and two wheels, or simply partake in the political and social life of your community and raise the issue. It's really easy to get a condo board seat, these are usually not competitive. The people on the board are generally like you and me. Of course they won't care about your issue if they don't hear about it. They are not likely to respond well however if the first time they hear about it is through a complaint.

Smoking in stair wells is a totally different issue. The smell gets into other people's units, is disruptive and poses a health risk. A bike in a condo doesn't disturb someone in another condo. The most a bike will do is scuff the floors and lower walls of some common areas - which will happen anyway. Which already does happen in rental buildings and you know what? Life goes on, people deal.

I gotta say: Why are you even on this website? You think cyclists have a sense of entitlement but motorists don't. You assume cyclists are at fault in bike-car collisions. You oppose bikes in condos. I don't think you've said one complimentary thing about bikes or cyclists in this thread, maybe not on this whole website.

I think you missed some points. I'll go through one by one.

I don't oppose bikes in Condos, I very much want bikes in condos. I just don't think acting like a dick is the way to do it. 3 years ago 1 person raised this very issue in our building, since then we got a dedicated bike room, that is locked near the security office, we also got e-bike parking with charging stations. Much more was achieved this way and it made biking part of the building. The alternative was people sneaking their bikes and fighting the condo against the fines they would levy.

I think motorists do feel very entitled, again I just don't think like acting like the same asshole that rides in a cage vs on 2 foot powered wheels helps. As to my outlook who is at fault, it's my experience with cyclist while riding my bike, they are the single biggest threat to me. This kind of riding is counterproductive to what I am trying to achieve as a cyclist, which is equal treatment in traffic. Right now riders are very inconsistent.

I am also a member of the cyclist union. Just because I belong to one group doesn't mean I will be blind to the faults it has, this creates an us vs them attitude. It sucks in politics and it sucks when it comes to divisive issues.

Hm. Saying "stick to the rules and wait until the condo board allows you to bring in your bike" doesn't sound very pro-bike to me. Neither does assuming cyclists are at fault in collisions, or saying they are your "single biggest threat".

Again, you picked 2 point and yet missed the entire point.

Yes, stick to the rules, also, change the rules.
You can remain a hippie freak in the eyes of the populace (and since you miss point I will carefully point out here that I don't think cyclists are hippie freak, but they are largely perceived as such) or make cycling the norm. I had the pleasure of living in Europe for 6 years of my live, the dreamy place most cyclists talk about here. The one aspect that is largely missed is that cycling is regulated and rules for cyclists are enforced strictly in those places. Cyclists are part of the system.

As for me saying cyclists are the biggest threat to me, well they are. I been ran of the road by assholes going the wrong way on street many more times than by cars. In my road encounters I feel like 1 in 500 cars is unsafe in relation to me. I feel like 1 in 25 cyclists are a threat to me. That shitty behavior is why people call for licensing of bikes and insurance.
So hell yeah I am pro bike in a big way. I also walk and jump in a car twice a month.

Does anyone know if comon condo rules allow to park your bike in the parking lot. I live in highrise building and own one parking spot. I have enough space for parking my car and bike. But my neighbour seems to have problem with this arrangment. Does anyone know what/if any condo rules says about that.

I know there is usually issue with property other than cars stored there. People in my building started storing winter tires and such. Eventually a letter was posted, I think it was a mix of by laws and insurance issues.

Now in our case we have a dedicated room on ground floor for bikes and racks in the garage. Being able to add a full enclosed locker to a parking space would be awesome though. I can see some red tape around it though since the insurance companies would have to clear that.