Physically Separated bike lanes
the only way bike lanes will work in this city is to physically separate them from the traffic. the idea is have the bike lane next to the curb, then parked car, then traffic. like this.
Check out this short vid. other cities have already adopted this plan. seems so simple...
"...the idea is have the bike lane next to the curb, then parked car, then traffic."
As the title suggests, I believe that cyclists ARE traffic. So does Ontario's Highway Traffic Act.
Yea there is something boring and sterile about having a completely segregated bike lane. Does that mean if we have phys-seperated bike lanes and I ride on the road cars will be surprised?
Although one late 20's rider summed it up nicely:
That is a good setup, from what I can see. But what if automobiles decided to use the new bike lanes as an additional stopping/parking space? What about passengers getting out of the cars, their doors will open directly into the lane, and the passengers will have to cross the lane to get to the sidewalk. Cyclists will still have to be careful not to run the passengers down or run into the open automobile doors. Also you know how "Good" our police force is at removing vehicles out of the bike lanes!!
Ken Finch
This has been done elsewhere in the world. It's certainly worth looking at how well it has worked in other cities when we think about lanes here.
Yes passengers could open doors into our lanes, but:
a) so can drivers if the bike lanes are on the other side,
b) there are always drivers, but often, no passengers
A big gap between the car and the sidewalk might remind people to be careful when opening their passenger-side doors, but then again, you'd think motor traffic capable of ripping of your door would make you careful when opening your driver-side door.
If people did park in the bike lane, it would be a lot worse than if they park in our current style of bike lanes, but maybe it would be less frequent, and cops would be more willing to ticket/tow? Maybe not.
It certainly has its advantages in terms of safety, but also disadvantages in terms of easy left turns.
You do have a good rebuttal, thanks. The only other thing I see is skate boarders, joggers and roller skaters trying to take over the lane.
Ken Finch
If you want to see tens of thousands cyclists moving around a city, then build massive cycling infrastructure that is limited to cyclists.
Can you imagine a 30' wide bike path running through the city?
Considering it would last about three times as long as a typical highway, and could be engineered for efficiency, why don't we just go big time on bike lanes?
Vancouver has converted a large amount (7km worth) of 10th avenue to a bike street.
http://vancouver.ca/engsvcs/transport/cycling/bikeways/rou...
Local traffic is allowed on, but bikes have priority. It is highly "traffic calmed" so no one in a car would use it to get anywhere fast.
Same can be said for e-bikers and e-scooters.
Atleast the rollerskaters and skateboarders are self-propelled traffic.
Until we got off coal,nuclear and oil for our main powersupply my opinion on electric will not change.
(The above comment is for Bike vs E-Bike, not E-Bike vs Car. That comparison is hands down e-bike.)
Well PPP, you had better have the electricity turned off in your house then cause you are killing our planet using that electricity or spend $50,000.00 to $100,000.00 to make your house Solar powered! (oh I forgot, with you, you cannot because you will not want to use batteries in your solar setup).
Our electric generating plants are so much cleaner then automobiles and so much more efficient. That per mile an E-bike is much cleaner. Plus us human E-Bike riders are less pollution producing then the cyclists because we require less food energy then the cyclist when riding. Food production and conversion to energy is the most wasteful and inefficient way to produce energy. So eat less when pedaling and you better not drink out of a disposable water bottle and then throw onto the roadway or bikelane like a lot of cyclists do.
Ken Finch
Basically as far as I am concerned bicycles are a very good form of transportation, but not the only form of transportation. E-Bikes are a good form of transportation as well. We all have to share or roadways and bike lanes because we all pay for them equally and have equal access to the bike lanes and roads under the MTO and HTA. The anti E-Bike activists always forget to mention or will not accept that E-Bikes have been on the roads safely since 2001 in other Canadian provinces and for longer in other parts of the world. They have a proven safety record that cannot be denied as proof. Actually by design you can say safer because the scooter style has these extra safety features that a bicycle does not have. I will give some examples; full lighting system with signals, headlights, tail lights, brake lights, horns, crush zones, more stable because of the lower center of gravity, better and full suspension system, wider tires for better traction, better braking system, stronger and stiffer frame design, rider is in a more upright position, thus better for the back and the riders head is higher so the rider can see better, shoulder checks are easier to impliment because of the bodies upper position, etc.
Ken Finch
**** Why are you people ruining this forum with constant talk about e-bikes vs bikes? What a waste of time and energy, on both sides.
Until we got off coal,nuclear and oil for our main powersupply my opinion on electric will not change.
*(The above comment is for Bike vs E-Bike, not E-Bike vs Car. That comparison is hands down e-bike.)
I never said an E-Bike should replace a bicycle, but I and others said E-Bikes are a good replacement for a car for in the city trips. The last part of the phrase you typed confirms my position. Congratulations I think you are starting to get it (that E-Bikes can be a very good alternative form of transportation). If we stop fighting between ourselves we could all benefit from the cooperation. More voices to demand more bike lanes and E-Bike/cyclist support structures put into place. Separately it will take a lot longer if ever to get that support.
Ken Finch
No, Ken. Actually, I don't agree with you at all. I think you're being a self-centred jerk.
What we could all benefit from is if you would tone down your holier-than-thou attitude and show interest in anything besides yourself and your e-bikes. Please recognize that, even if e-bikes are barred from bike lanes, more bike lanes will still benefit you as an e-biker and as a human being.
Yes, I think people are being overly hostile toward e-bikes, but I also think they have some very legitimate concerns that you seem totally unwilling to acknowledge.
As long as both sides are ignoring eachother's valid points, you might as well both shut up.
If my primary vehicle is an E-Bike and I get barred from the bike lanes, how is bike lanes going to benifit me? Bike lanes only benifit me if I get to use them with my E-Bike period. And I will not support something I am denied from using (that is human nature).
Ken Finch
Chill. e-bikes aren't going to be bared from the bike lanes unless a viable alternative is put into place for them.
I feel that's the main point at stake here - a viable alternative needs to be opened up to e-bike users (the heavy scooter kind).
A viable alternative may include a change to the physical structure of the e-bikes. hell, I'd be happy if they were just more narrow like a moped and lighter like a bike, and I'm sure it's totally possible too.
I've been riding a bicycle for over 40 years, some of these years in other cites. While living in Berlin Germany, the bike has had it's own lanes since the 1970 & people, bicycles & cars, for the most part get along well. Now to Toronto's so called bike lanes, these painted lines are not respected by cars, this includes Police cars & vans,Taxicabs, Ambulances, Delivery trucks, Official City Vehicles or pedestrians!
While riding in a bike lane & being cut off on many occasions by cars making right turns, after being frustrated & saying something to whatever vehicle doing this, I've be told to get off the road! It's gotten very scary to ride your bicycle in this city. It seems the only way to get through this situation is to ride as aggressively as possible, sometimes breaking the rules of the road!
The exciting future of lighter, cheaper and environmentally friendly batteries are just around the corner. I personally have samples that I will be receiving in about a month for testing which if true will be available to scooter style e-bikers by next spring. They boast a 2 hour charge (80% in one hour) and will weigh half as much as lead acid, which will offer more range as a result. They will be priced a little more than lead acid and much less than lithium. new designs will follow since the batteries will be smaller and lighter. The new batteries will also behave better in colder weather, making their season even longer. To reduce the weight by 30 pounds is considerable. With lighter frames ahead as well, these bikes will weigh under 100 pounds very soon, although I am certainly not convinced a 175 e-bike is any more dangerous. A very viable alternative to automobiles for short commutes. So I wish alot of people on this forum would chill and let nature take its course.
Change can be good...One less car....
self-censoredno delete option?
LoL, Ken Finch's logic-less rants will never get old.
I have to admit Ken's baseless monologues and Herb's epic posts are the only reason I check this site daily.
Thats a old Driver vs Cyclist pollution myth that has been debunked. Have to admit i've never heard it in the context of e-bikes.