Bike-Car Collision - insurance help

Were the police called? Did you get his information and do you have car insurance yourself? He cannot demand that you pay up in cash because he does not want to report it. He reports it to his insurance company and they take care of him. Plain and simple. Could the insurance company come after you, there is a possibility but if they do they cannot over inflate the costs as it seems he may of.

Do you have any other insurance policies? Homeowners/tenants?

Never makes deals with drivers after a crash, 99% of those deals go bad.

Here is a link to the Insurance Bureau of Canada. They have a section where you can ask for advice.
http://www.ibc.ca/en/Car_Insurance/Ask_the_Expert/

Ask today, you need to act quickly.

Hey Needy,

Sell your bike, pay for the damage you caused, and get off the roads. You're one of those irresponsible cyclists who makes us all look bad. Shoulda thought of all that before you went riding off the trail, onto the sidewalk, and onto the road. You could have walked your bike. Just because a road is closed is not an excuse for breaking the law, and as you admit, doing the wrong thing. At least you diddn't get hurt. Be grateful and pay up. And next time, obey the law.

Oh yeah, for the rest of you : bikes need insurance. Cyclists should be covered for collision and injury damages, just the same as all other vehicles. This is a clear example why. This dude has just caused thousands of dollars in damage, and dosn't have to take responsibility for it, because "the system" dosn't have a way to handle it. BS. That needs to change.

And if you had hit my car, damn right we'd be on the way to the pawn shop for you to hock your wheels, and whatever else you own, to pay for the damage you caused.

yep, I'm a prick.

My general principle follows Ontario law that car drivers are on the road at their own risk. If a car driver causes damage, he has to pay for it. But if a cyclist unintentionally damages a car, too bad. That's just one of the (many) risks of driving a car.

Ontario law has a "reverse onus" provision that assumes that car drivers are at fault unless they can prove otherwise. In this situation, that seems difficult. I note no reference to witnesses.

Although, in general, I do not approve of riding on the sidewalk, some cyclists just don't have the confidence necessary. Hopefully, the sidewalk riding is a temporary phase until that confidence is built.

My general principle is that car owners should pay for all damage in car-bike collisions no matter who is at fault. That is simply one of the risks involved in taking a car onto the road, and if car drivers don't like it, then they can stay on private racetracks and off the public roads. Certainly if I were to inadvertently damage a car I would refuse all requests to pay for the damage. If the driver doesn't like it, he can sue me. But that's real hard to do, thanks to the following provision of Ontario law:

Onus of disproving negligence

1. (1) When loss or damage is sustained by any person by reason of a motor vehicle on a highway, the onus of proof that the loss or damage did not arise through the negligence or improper conduct of the owner, driver, lessee or operator of the motor vehicle is upon the owner, driver, lessee or operator of the motor vehicle. 2005, c. 31, Sched. 10, s. 3.

Source:

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_st...

The police weren't called at the scene, but he made a filed a report the next day and I got a call from the Waterloo Regional Police. The thing is, is that he claims that he was in an accident 2 months ago and I was shaken up at the time so I didn't take a good look at his vehicle. It's a bit hard now, to meet up or take a look at his car because I went home to Calgary last Friday (family circumstances had me do so). In the end, if I have to pay the damage it's fine I'll deal with it but my friend who owns the insurance company says it just doesn't add up and he's afraid that the driver is committing fraud of sorts. I don't have other insurance, I rent and don't have a car. The issue isn't so much the money, it sucks and I'll have to tighten my belt a lot in order to pay for tuition, it's just that is sounds fishy.

As for prick - I learned to commute by bike in Toronto and never broke any laws and the previous accident I was involved in was because a car made an unsafe turn, didn't even see me and collided right into me. I'm typically pretty careful when it comes to cycling. But take a look at cycling infrastructure in different cities, it can be hard to navigate and Waterloo is not a cycling-on-the-street kind of a city (I'm in urban design, this is exactly what I deal with) - and if your opinion is to take all cyclists off the road who are cycling illegally - well then the city would have no cyclists because everybody I know who cycles does so on the sidewalk, through crosswalks, etc. I also understand that, because in my experience in cycling in Waterloo - drivers don't know how to share the road and often my handlebars almost get clipped when I'm on the road so why would people ride on the road if they feel endangered?

Yes, I'm in the wrong - I already admitted that. I had already accepted that I was going to pay for the damages, doing so in monthly installments until I talked to my friend who advised me to do otherwise. He has seen enough insurance fraud in his lifetime to know what he's talking about. Why would a driver accept to take monthly installments from somebody, have to wait over the months and pay interest on his credit card (as he said he would pay upfront for the damages on his card as I reimburse him monthly) when his insurance company could cover it upright, and then I would pay for the resulting deductible, and his premium wouldn't go up? It just doesn't make sense.

Don't pay him. If he wants to claim it on his insurance, he can do so. If he choses to sue you (in small claims court) he can do so. But you shouldn't pay him directly. Not unless you feel like you can draft an iron-clad waiver for him to sign.

By the way, the reverse onus provisions of the Highway Traffic Act aren't that hard to circumvent. Especially here where you were in volation of the same act. In my expereince (but now I have only handled ~100 files where this section of the act was of importance) most small claims judges will ignore this provision and treat it as a normal tort case.

More in your favour is the high cost of trying to litigate these damages vs. the total value of the damages.

Just wait it out.

The cost itself doesn't sound unusual. Most often when a car receives scratching big enough to warrant a re-paint, the whole car must be done, and that is generally 2-3 thousand.

This whole thing needs to go through the insurance company though. Each company is different, so you need to contact them directly and get paperwork faxed proving that you either do or do not have to pay any money.

As far as I'm familiar with this stuff though, the driver must make a claim through his company and you shouldn't have to pay up anything since you don't have insurance in the first place. He wants to screw you because, insurance companies being what they are, want to screw him for something that isn't his fault at all. His costs will go up, so he's trying to avoid making a claim.

Getting in contact with the insurance company will help you down the road if this guy decides to go all crazy on you and take you to small claims court or something.

Lastly, contact the company that currently insures your home/apartment. Your bike falls under their purview, and they should be able to offer some good advice here.

Document everything, including everything you remember from the accident itself and how you hit the car, what parts you hit and what you recall of the visuals.

if your opinion is to take all cyclists off the road who are cycling illegally - well then the city would have no cyclists because everybody I know who cycles does so on the sidewalk, through crosswalks, etc. I also understand that, because in my experience in cycling in Waterloo - drivers don't know how to share the road and often my handlebars almost get clipped when I'm on the road so why would people ride on the road if they feel endangered?

A friend of a friend, Sgt. Greg Stobbart, was killed by a dangerous driver with a huge list of previous offences, and his widow is running Share the Road.org from your beloved Kitchener Waterloo area. Go check out her program, and get yourself educated. The way to change driver behavior is to start with yourself.

"Everybody I know who cycles does so onthe sidewalk, through crosswalks, etc." So you and your friends continue to do the wrong thing, and that's ok? Instead of justifying what you and your friends do to excuse yourselves from following the law and respecting others, why not try to change your behavior, and improve the perception of cycling in Kitchener by NOT RIDING ON THE DAMN SIDEWALK!

I know twelve Kitchener area cyclists who ride regularly, and have never had an incident like yours. That's because they're responsible and skilled cyclists.

You commit a infraction with willful disregard for your own safety (riding off the sidewalk onto the road), or the safety of others (riding onto the road off the sidewalk), you cause damage that you can't pay for and won't accept responsibility to correct ("everyone I know cycles illegally"), and then you turn to this cycling community for support and answers!? You should be charged with a traffic offense, and have your bike impounded. Permanently!

I'm sorry, I really am a prick.

I should have added that this looks like a situation where it is important to exercise your right to remain silent. If there are no witnesses, that makes him suing you all the harder - unless you open your mouth.

nee_m,

You need to get yourself proper advice. Some of the stuff here is a little far fetched and should not be relied. Tom H did give some good insight. But still. Contact the Law Society of Upper Canada's referral service and pay the fee to get 30 minutes of legal advice through one of there lawyers. ARC at www.respect.to has a list a lawyers that may also be able to help.

You said you are a student, see if your school has a legal clinic that can help you. Maybe you may even have a clinic in your community.

Make your decisions on sound advice.

Make your decisions on sound advice.

Darren had the best post in my opinion out of all of these commentator's and the above quote is what I think nee_m should take away from this... besides realizing to be a lot more careful when she/he is doing something illegal on a bike (or not do said illegal action ever again if she/he is unable to be responsible & safe while doing it).

Well, I called the insurance company that he is under, and I was told that any insurance company in Ontario would cover an accident like this, without the driver's premium going up as it is out of their control. The thing I just don't understand is that I said that I would pay the insurance deductible that would result, and if he is being charged an interest rate on his credit every month, waiting for my monthly installments as opposed to having his insurance company cover the cost upright, I pay the deductible and his premium doesn't go up. Even the agent I spoke with said that something seemed fishy with the situation. He was also in a previous accident before he told me, and I didn't see the car before the accident so I don't know if maybe he's getting me to cover damages from the previous accident as well as mine. I don't know, it's all just speculation I just don't want to give him the money to pay for the damages until I know exactly what is going on. The difficulty is that I am outside of Ontario now, and not going to be back until the 29th - I had to go home because of a death in my family so it couldn't be avoided (nor do I want to avoid that) so I can't really access my university's legal centre, and I also can't take photos etc. I'm okay with paying the money, I'm in the wrong and I understand that - but everybody (even an insurance agent and a friend who owns an insurance company) tells me something seems fishy.

As for prick - I wasn't trying to advocate illegal cycling. I was simply trying to emphasize the fact that a lot of people do ride illegally, like on sidewalks or through crosswalks to "turn left" as opposed to the road because they just don't feel confident enough to do otherwise. Do we penalize them because of that? It's not right, but at the same time there is no program that exists for people who want to commute by bike to learn how to do so safely. You can read all you want on a topic, but it doesn't mean it'll help you in reality once anxiety takes over. Most of the people I know who ride on sidewalks/etc are students and they tell me they're just too nervous to ride on the road. People on ring road alone at the university go fast enough to kill pedestrians when it's a clearly pedestrian oriented area. The point it, KW is a car-oriented city and that can make people nervous. So, you can either make efforts to make the city more bike-oriented, or the realities are that people are just going to do things like ride on the sidewalk or whatever. Did I say I supported that? It's plain and simple, a reality and no amount of your decrying that all cyclists who are not the perfect cyclist should have their bikes impounded will do anything - your words are just words unless you're going to take the onus to create a program to educate people who would like to commute by bike on the safe and best way to do it.

I never said I was a good cyclist, I try to be more sustainable by cycling when I could easily drive. I don't think it's fair to punish cyclists who make dumb mistakes unless they're really putting others safety at risk - I never ride on the sidewalk, this was an isolated incident and I wasn't charging my way down into a crowd of pedestrians. I put my own safety at risk, and that's my own dumb mistake which I will pay for, in the end somehow or another. I don't know where you're getting this idea where I am refusing to take responsibility - if I wanted to refuse to take responsibility - I would have given the driver my incorrect information. Easy. Done. I would never hear from him again, and he would have a hard time finding me, especially since I was leaving the city the next day. I wouldn't still be in contact with him, and I wouldn't have answered when the police called my phone. I'm moving in a few weeks to a new city and a new address, that nobody knows and it would still be easy to "get away" with this but I'm not doing that - I already talked to him about paying in a monthly installment until I was advised by other people to wait and investigate some more. So please, step off your high-horse because you would be lying if you said you never made some dumb mistake when you first started cycling. Our North American cities just don't have an adequate enough of a cycling culture of those of other cities to really educate or train people on the right and wrong ways to do it. The fact that you keep saying "I'm a prick, I'm sorry" leads me to believe that you are just trying to be mean on purpose and I don't really understand why - you are the furthest that can be from being apologetic so why do you bother writing it?

I came here to get legitimate advice, believe me, I know that I am in the wrong and yes - I have learned my lesson. Don't you think I feel stupid enough already without your help? Berating me isn't going to make the situation disappear, nor will it help me, or the driver or even other cyclists for that matter. All it's going to do is lead me to believe that yes, you really are a prick and that you don't have any constructive criticism or advice to offer. Being a jerk doesn't help anybody (including yourself), it just makes you a jerk.

Hi Nee,m,

Sorry to hear of your unfortunate experience, glad you're not injured.

Community Bicycling Network, City of Toronto, City of Kitchener, and lots of other agencies both public and private offer CAN-BIKE and urban cycling skills lessons, just like Lifesaving Society offers swimming lessons, and Canadian Ski Instructors Alliance offers ski lessons. I would strongly urge you to take one of these programs, as they will teach you to become confident and skilled in traffic. I am surprised University of Waterloo does not offer such programs to students on their campus.

As for mr Prick, you can learn from him by avoiding conflict, which is a key tenet of CAN-BIKE. Any collision, whether verbal or physical, can be prevented, by use of awareness, education, and tactful skill.

best,
Brian

This has been law in Ontario for a number of years. He pays insurance to cover damages to his property.

What if his figure of $3,000 is made up - he will pocket the cash and never repair the damages. Maybe even come back to sue you a few months later claiming you never paid.

Don't pay him, if he or his insurance company takes you to small claims court for the deductible or damages... then go and plead guilty and pay(you also have a right to prove he could have gotten it repaired for cheaper and the judge may be lenient if you are already in financial trouble). I wouldn't fork over that amount of cash to anybody without some official paperwork involved. There are a lot of slimy people out there and unfortunately they have ruined making such a system straight forward.

Sorry a few of posters were dicks to you, hope your accident is a wake-up call to cycle properly :) - at least you weren't really hurt.

More here the topic has been covered elsewhere on the site.

but let me point out where you crossed the line, from constructive (if abrasive) community member into something else: the point where you told another cyclist he shouldn't ride again, he should have his bike impounded permanently, and so on. I have no objection to telling another cyclist they made a mistake, and they should pay to fix it. I do have a problem with you dismissing anyone from the ranks of the cyclists, and an equally big problem with you appointing yourself to speak for "this community"; you certainly have no authorization to speak for me, or by 40 years on two wheels.