Downtown Bike Lanes Back on City Hall Burner

Did you really say you don't see the benefits?

• 1st separate facilities & on arterials too, even some 2-way portions.
• facilities that compare to a paint stripe the way a band-aid compares to a skin graft, permanence vs placating
• He states that the intent is also to connect the existing networks, something no one else has had any success at furthering. Even Heaps had the goal but acknowledged as it stood then that a connected network was very future.
• If it lives through the next 6 months it will represent the largest and most sensible commitment to utility cycling in Toronto since the invention of the freewheel

As for intersections, we are not building the first manned moon colony, it's been done elsewhere and can be adopted to here.

If this lives it will rocket Toronto back up in the ranks of bike-friendly cities. Maybe not so much among roadies training or hipsters racing mustaches, but among people using a bike to traverse the core it will be a tremendous benefit and a boon to cycling numbers in Toronto, as well as a perfect companion to the BIXI program.

I'm a city rider and those are the prospective benefits.

A city utility rider

Considering most accidents happen at intersections(right hook is most common iirc) - i'm not so excited about the curbs alone.

Will we get bike boxes for left turns?

I'm skeptical about this motion being a gesture only, but we'll see!

See the benefits? I don't even see what the heck the city will implement.

1. How many access points will there be? Will we be able to turn left on or off the curbed path, or will we have to ride (or walk the bike) to the nearest major intersection to enter/leave the lane?
2. How wide will the curbed lane be? Will there be room to safely pass? Or will we all pedal along at the speed of the slowest rider out there?
3. Will the lane be swept in summer and the cleared in winter?
4. Will the lane be drained properly, or will it flood after a good rainstorm?
5. Will intersections be treated to a P-gate and a "Cyclists dismount and walk your bike" sign?
6. Will riding in the curbed lane be mandatory?
7. How will the curbed bike lanes deal with the inevitable utility construction? "Lane closed: cyclists dismount and walk your bicycles on the sidewalk"?
8. How will we avoid the inevitable Wrong-Way Wally?
9. How wide will the curbs be? Will they be used by pedestrians crossing the street (and thus adding another obstacle, effectively narrowing the lane)?

I can see a lot more ways for this to go wrong that for it to go right. Protecting bicycle lanes can solve a few problems, such as cars parking on the path (if the curbing is high enough) and cars crossing over into the path on curves. And it can also cause a lot more problems by taking away options to turn or avoid problems (such as glass or bad pavement).

the "glass is half empty" crowd is responding exactly as expected. Thanks to this new initiative drainage and bike lane cleanliness are now a concern? The whining has reached a new low.

Silvio, your point about whining is fine and all, but these are serious design issues. I have trust in City Staff to do a good job copying best practices in designing bike lanes, but there are always tradeoffs, and if there isn't the political will to set aside enough road space for good lane widths, enough budget for winter maintenance, or enough parking to leave good sight-lines at intersections, separated bike lanes might not be "all that".

Take the issue of winter maintenance. Salt needs to be mixed into snow for melting to occur, and bicycle traffic alone isn't sufficient. Right now on our painted "Class II" bike lanes, the stream of cars driving through the bike lane (to park, turn, or just for fun) takes care of melting the snow. With a 'fully separated' bike lane, unless the snow is cleared, it will pretty much be useless after one good snowfall.

Silvio, your point about whining is fine and all, but these are serious design issues. I have trust in City Staff to do a good job copying best practices in designing bike lanes, but there are always tradeoffs, and if there isn't the political will to set aside enough road space for good lane widths, enough budget for winter maintenance, or enough parking to leave good sight-lines at intersections, separated bike lanes might not be "all that".

Take the issue of winter maintenance. Salt needs to be mixed into snow for melting to occur, and bicycle traffic alone isn't sufficient. Right now on our painted "Class II" bike lanes, the stream of cars driving through the bike lane (to park, turn, or just for fun) takes care of melting the snow. With a 'fully separated' bike lane, unless the snow is cleared, it will pretty much be useless after one good snowfall.

Anthony, Brian and other posters decrying the plan.

You don't know.

You have not seen a design.

You have seen a proposal to a commitment to implement these facilities, where they will be.

What you do know is that such facilities exist, they function, there is snow in those places.

That means we can do it too.

Can you guess who will be looking to solve these problems that you seem to postulate as reason to forgo these separated lanes and new bike lanes, and the additional lanes to connect the network?

Ford's team, whether he does himself or not, has enough knowledge and wisdom to turn to experts for what they do not fathom.

Do you naysayers really think Dan Egan is not up to the challenge? Especially as he'll have all you hounding him about these intersections, that are truly safe now for cyclists, unless we put in separate bikelanes like they do in Europe. European intersections that include separate bike lanes are deathtraps for cyclists.

Right?

Anthony, the only thing this administration has going for it is extreme amounts of political will.

I give you everything that has occurred up to this point as my case, and I rest it.

Ed, just a few points,

1. Look to previous implementations elsewhere. Separate means just that, thereby access will not be the same. It does not mean it will be limited. But I prefer a curb large enough that a cyclist transferring from separate lane to common traffic lane to dismount and re-mount in the same manner as leaving the sidewalk to enter the roadway.
2. One way bike lanes are currently wide enough for careful riders to pass, likely these will be the same. There will be incidents, but, there are already. I've been hit from behind by cyclists (1 inattentive, 1 inattentive with non-functional brakes) on more than one occasion as I ride the city. This was with no bike lane at all.
3. Will the wind blow and the sun shine? These facilities at first glance are already better suited to clearing than current bike lanes esp. where there is a parking lane between regular and bike lanes. The city equipment used to clear city sidewalks will be ideal. Will it be perfect? Is it now?
4. Do the street flood now, or do they drain? The same engineers will be building these.
5. They are not treated to P-gates and dismount orders in other facilities elsewhere except where those lanes meet with dedicated pedestrian areas, so why on earth would that occur here? They have made it plain that these will be for transportation and not just recreation.
6. No, riding in the bike lane will not be mandatory, the City does not have the ability to supersede provincial law on the matter.
7. How do you deal with construction now, magic carpet? Of course construction will cause interruptions, just as it does now. However the cars get through you will too.
8. Do you ram them now or do they generally give you your right of way?
9. Do you honestly expect a traffic solution that is not cluttered with pedestrians? Treat them with respect and you'll get it back. This question is a bit ridiculous.

So, combining those nine points you made in the form of a question I can only conclude that these lanes should not be implemented because of their source as there is no reasonable way to block their construction with questions of engineering, mechanical, social or otherwise.

Really you guys, this is from heaven, and you're all upset because.... why?

Oh yeah, the source.

So let them have that, you take the best cycling facilities in North America and see who gets the last laugh.

Uh Eugene, where did you get the sense that I oppose this? I'm all in favor, providing it's not done half-assed.

The Globe reports today: Ford's people clarify that safe bike routes are "not a high priority", and that the mayor hasn't read the proposal. (The initial stories made it seem like Ford was sympathetic.)

The same article says (does this come from Denzil?):

"The scheme would see second curbs installed a metre or so out from the existing curbs, allowing cyclists to pedal safely in the space between sidewalks and parked cars or traffic, depending on the location."

Metre-wide oneway lanes, and continual door prizes? This sounds like a plan to make drivers happy not cyclists. What's next, "separate but equal" drinking fountains for cyclists?

To anyone who takes Rob (Go FORD Go) FORD seriously!. Please wake up, or get an education. The man is not serious but a buffoon and his team of dim whits will do or say anything to buy the political moment. This was obvious to anyone who followed the election campaign and had not had a lobotomy. Just look at today's surplus burning budget. The fact that he won speaks very badly about our society.

Mark my words Torontonians in 4 years time cycling will be much worse in this city, as will be driving and mass transport. You have no one to blame for this but yourselves.

So please don't even start talking about this separated lanes stunt. It ain't going to happen.

Considering your empassioned plea about education I find the comment about "dim whits" very amusing. Further, how does one "mark your words" when you chose to post anonymously?

Ford's message in the campaign was consistent from Day 1 to the victory speech. It was Smitherman who changed his position several times in a failed attempt to fool the electorate. We have heard enough about our society from the bitter supporters the losing candidate.

Since your comprehension of the present is so tenuous I can't place much credence in your dire predictions. We KNOW Miller achieved very few of the lofty promises made to cyclists during his term. We'll have to wait and see if Ford does better or worse.