P-gates at Ontario Place

My suggestion re the iron stumps:

Call 311 and describe the specific location of each of those stumps. Point out it's a safety hazard and it needs fixing.

The advantage of a 311 call is that a formal record is created. You get a reference number , you can track it and thus make sure the city does not drop the ball. The additional advantage is the creation of a formal record on this safety hazard, and in case an accident happens there, the lawyers for the complainant can put their teeth into such a record and thus prove the City knew about it. In short: not fixing might cost them big money. That should work, for this specific trail maintenance issue....

For the P gates at Ontario Place, write your MPP. Ontario Place is owned by the Province of Ontario. The Bike Summit is coming to Toronto. 61 MPP's have confimred their attendance. The keynote speaker is Bob Chiarelli, the Transportation Minister. He will be extolling his government's committment to cycling. His email address is chiarelli.mpp
@gmail.com

A question to ask. What sort of committment is Ontario Place showing when they are deliberately impeding a transportation bike lane? Since it is closed, what sort of message is it showing of the government's committment to cycling?

I received this response from Ontario Place. Apparently they are closing the gates because cars drive on the trail. Also, cyclists are going too fast and is therefore dangerous for pedestrians. Read below

Dear Mr. Juliusson,

Thank you very much for taking the time to voice your concerns and we appreciate your suggestions. We can assure you that safety of all our patrons is our number one priority.

The P-gates on the Martin Goodman Trail were installed as part of the trail revitalization. The main purpose of the gates is to prevent unauthorized motor vehicles from accessing the trail. Unfortunately, this has been an issue on several occasions when the gates have been opened.

As a multi-use trail, the safety of our guests and trail users is our main concern. We are currently working with the City of Toronto to come up with a new option for the P-gates that will address the concerns of trail users and prevent unauthorized motor vehicles from entering the trail. We have made this a priority and will be moving as quickly as possible to find an alternative.

In the meantime we ask that all trail users use safety, precaution and in the case of cyclists slower speeds to make the trail a better more enjoyable experience for all.

Should you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact me directly.

Regards,

Jean

Jean Abou-Saab
Executive Assistant
Ontario Place Corporation
phone: 416.314.9784 | fax: 416.314.9908
www.ontarioplace.com
jean.abou-saab@ontarioplace.com

I got the same story last year.

Cars can still drive on the trail - everywhere else. It's usually city cleanup vehicles, but also cops (sometimes these vehicles are very unpredictable, but that's another story).

Cars can still get on the Ontario Place section, too - from the east end at the inukshuk. If a private car is there, it's because the driver is confused by what they see there. So they turn onto the bike path by mistake and the P-gates block their exit at the other end. Then they have to back out.

In terms of "slowing cyclists down" it's completely absurd. Yes the P-gates do slow people down, but that's because they are a serious hazard. All that damage on the reflective tape is not from beavers gnawing on the P-gates, it's from people CRASHING INTO THEM. There was a Toronto Star complaint the the Fixer about them from someone who wound up in the hospital. The problem was not fixed. The P-gates and lampposts in the middle of the path are hurting people.

For those people who do manage to avoid crashing into them, the P-gates still claim a vital slice of the cyclist's attention pie that is much better applied to the deadly traffic that still turns in and out of Ontario Place. Somebody is going to die at these horrible, appallingly designed intersections, and the p-gates are part of the problem.

When I argued this to Ontario Place last year I was IGNORED. There was no response at all. There was no argument as to what studies show that the p-gates improve overall safety. The p-gates were open through all of the first year, so they must have before and after statistics?

Have you ever seen p-gates installed to slow cars down? And the consequence of someone crashing into them in a car is much less! It's lunacy!

Ontario Place and, by extension, the provincial government, are completely irresponsible in allowing this to public hazard to exist. Particularly galling is how they claim it's for safety! It's sick!

Now that Ontario Place is closed, it does not need four entrances for cars. All but one can be closed permanently, allowing the Martin Goodman Trail users to pass freely. The P-gates should be removed.

Write to your MPP!

I rode in to work this morning. The P gates have been reopened. All it has taken is Parks being consistent, at least two councillors I know of asking Ontario Place to have a dialogue wih the city and many citizens writing letters. I hope the gates will stay open and it is not just short term.

I rode in this morning and the P gates are once again closed.

I understand what happened. Sunday was the Toronto marathon and the gates were opened for them. Somebody forgot to close them yesterday

Ontario Place has zero intention of opening them unless they are forced to.

Hey!

If you want some help in negotiating your route, let me know, I'll take you personally, which is the best thing one can do, to avoid traffic at any possible time. I'm an old bike courier, two years out of the job, so I know all of the routes that we could take. Feel free to email me at steviemcintosh@hotmail.com. Cheers!

These things cause accidents! If one is stuck behind a group of riders, we can in fact see the car coming, but not another cyclist or even worse, ecyclist. These idiots use the trails as if they are allowed to at all times. I've seen them crash into people, even kids, so it's important they not be allowed to traverse our lanes.

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I have received this reply from Councillor Layton's assistant on the P gates at Ontario Place.

Hello David,

I have spoken with Jean Abou-Saab at Ontario Place about this issue and he admits that it is a constant struggle on the Martin Goodman Trail. As you are aware, the MGT is located on OPC land and the role the City plays is for its maintenance. The goals of the p-gates are to prevent vehicular traffic from entering the MGT and slow down cyclists as they approach the active intersection.

Currently, the City and OPC are in talks to possibly install delineators on site, in place of the troublesome p-gates. It is our hope that these talks wrap up soon and the p-gates removed as soon as possible. The installation of the delineators would be performed by the City. If you would like to follow-up with regards to the p-gates in the future, please do not hesitate to write to myself or Jean at jean.abou-saab@ontarioplace.com.

All the best,

Marco

What about the absolute mess they have made of the bike path east of Jarvis. Instead of routing the trail along the waterfront they have forced cyclists onto the road and designated the bike path for pedestrian use and effectively kept the waterfront private property. All these newly created intersections are going to be accident prone and could have been avoided by routing along the lake. They have even installed speed bumps out towards the lighthouse at the Leslie street spit to slow cyclists down. This was confirmed in a small article in the Toronto Star this past winter.

This is from Sheila Paxton, Councillor Grimes Assistant. She has been working at trying to get P gates opened at Ontario Place

Good afternoon Everyone
In our discussions from Councillor Grimes office about the P gates we were told Ontario Place will not be opening them and they are waiting for a resolution in parks because of the speed of cyclists and cylclists running the lights, endangering pedestrians and drivers.
When Our parks supervisor contacted the park supervisor for that area asking what the resolution was he was told they did not have a resolution other than bollards.
So there seems to be a lot of misinformation.
It was clear to me in discussion with Ontario Place that they are not prepared to open them
Sheila

This a follow up from Councillor Layton's office on the P gates.

Hello David,

Thank you for following up with your concern about the p-gates. Unfortunately, I have not heard anything new since my previous e-mail where it was explained to me by staff at Ontario Place that they would be working with Parks toward the possible installation of delineators, as opposed to the current p-gates. Mr. Abou-Saab may be able to shed more insight into the progress they have made with this City since we last chatted.

One note, in addition to not allowing cars on the MGT, there is also a concern about speeding cyclists as they approach the active intersection. This is the reason why delineators may be the best option as they are less intrusive than the p-gates, while allowing cyclists to pass through at a slower speed.

When I do receive an update, I will be certain to pass along this information to you.

All the best,

Marco

Marco Bianchi
Administrative Assistant to
Councillor Mike Layton
Ward 19, Trinity-Spadina
416 392 4009

David - thanks for all your follow-up.

As a frequent user of the trail, I am well aware of the dangers of the P-gates. I ride the trail in the early hours and so passing other cyclists is not a huge problem although it can be a bit stressful. My question is this - why do the gates have to be constructed from steel? Why not some kind of break away material? I have no issue with slowing down. I think that's a good thing when passing through these intersections - it is very true that drivers just make their turns without looking. I have seen it and almost been hit myself once. I do not think steel is necessary - hitting these gates is FORESEEABLE and constructing them from a material that can cause catastrophic injury is negligent. I hope that someone who has hit these gates sues the crap out of Ontario Place and something safer for all parties is installed.

There will be a public meeting this Tuesday to steer the future of Ontario Place. Let's make sure cycling is included in it! At the very least the Waterfront Trail should pass the park without barriers. A car-centric amusement park with a vast parking lot next to it sends the wrong message to our kids.

http://www.mtc.gov.on.ca/en/ontarioplace/ontarioplace.shtml

The Minister’s Advisory Panel on Ontario Place Revitalization invites Ontarians to participate in a town hall on the future of Ontario Place.
Date: Tuesday, June 5, 2012

Time: 6:30 - 9:30 p.m.

Location: Metro Toronto Convention Centre
South Building, Room 801
222 Bremner Blvd, Toronto

John Tory, Chair, will ask a series of questions about how to make Ontario Place a year-round destination. Thinking of participating? Consider the following questions:

What are the key elements of a public space that matter to you?
What would entice you to return to Ontario Place many times during the year?
The roundtable session will be followed by a presentation on the key themes heard during the group discussions and a Question & Answer session.

Ideas and suggestions will be considered by the Advisory Panel as it prepares its final report to government on the redevelopment of Ontario Place.

I received this form letter from the provincial government

July 4, 2012

Dear Mr. Juliusson:

Thank you for your email regarding the P-gates at Ontario Place on the Martin Goodman Trail. The Honourable Bob Chiarelli, Minister of Infrastructure, shared your message with me as the gates are on land owned by Ontario Place, an agency of the Ministry of Tourism, Culture and Sport. I also understand that you have been in contact with Ontario Place staff. I am pleased to have the opportunity to respond.

I would like to assure you that visitor safety is a top priority at all of our ministry’s agencies and attractions. The P-gates were installed as part of the Martin Goodman Trail revitalization. The main purpose of the gates is to protect trail users and prevent unauthorized motor vehicles from accessing the trail which, unfortunately, has been an issue in the past.

Ontario Place is working with the City of Toronto to develop a long-term plan to ensure the trail is safe for all users while also addressing the concerns raised by some trail users.

I trust this information is helpful to you. Thank you again for writing to share your concerns.

Yours truly,

Michael Chan

Minister

As of last night, the Waterfront Trail is closed at Ontario Place. They are doing work on their property and need to park their vehicles on the trail. There is a hand painted sign telling cyclists to use the old trail

They'll be there with their heavy equipment for about three days. The trail should be back to (mostly) normal by the day after tomorrow.

I'm sure we can all suffer the brief by-pass for that long.

The work being done is the installation of a new cellphone (wireless telecommunication) tower to replace the temporary one that has been in the parking lot for several years.

Yesterday they bored the hole, today they should be installing the "base" (below ground foundation for the tower) and I would expect that the tower would be installed tomorrow. Each of these steps require the use of heavy equipment. The presence of this heavy equipment on the trail is a very good reason to temporarily close this small section of trail..
Crews will continue to work to make the tower operational after that, however the use of heavy equipment that made the trail closure necessary won't be employed once the tower is up.

Surprisingly, I don't know which telco (telephone company) this tower is for.

Got more info...

The tower portion of the new cell phone tower is expected to be installed later, this current work is all about the base (foundation). Expect the crews to be back next week, and longer, to install the tower, wiring, antennas, etc. A crane will be brought in to raise the tower on the base, but this should not disrupt our use of the trail for more than a day. The rest of the work should involve minimal disruption to trail use as heavy equipment is not required..

The new tower will be capable of hosting all antennas from each of the wireless telco's , but some telco's won't get the benefits of the full height of the tower. The new tower is to be about 30 metres tall, or about 100'. Bell mobility seems to be leading this project and will get top spot on the new tower. Meanwhile Rogers wireless has not yet committed to using this new tower; you can find Rogers' currents antennas on the adjacent pedestrian bridge.

The Waterfront Trail in front of Ontario Place was reopened this afternoon. The P gates, of course, were not.

ecyclist. These idiots use the trails as if they are allowed to at all times. I've seen them crash into people, even kids, so it's important they not be allowed to traverse our lanes.

No you haven't. Why are you making such irresponsible statements that are not true, and what does that have to do with the gates anyway?

Looks like they're in the process of replacing the P gates with soft plastic uprights. There will be three uprights, with space for two bikes to go by in both directions.

These are a huge improvement. They're bright orange, so they're more visable, and they are flexible, so an accidental impact won't bring you to a dead stop.

This strikes me as a great improvement.

Wow, really? That's good news. You've seen the new bollards? Which intersection(s)?

You can't miss seeing these bright orange plastic whip bollards at every intersection.
Hopefully you can miss them when riding.

As of last night there were three @ side at the eastern most intersection, and 2 @ side at the other two intersections.

They are definitely an improvement over what was there before. I am unsure why they need to pt one in the middle though instead of just the one at either side. The whole point of them is to keep cars off the trail. One on either side would do that

The Fixer has an article on the flexible bollards.

Maybe we can finally close this issue?