Streets vs. Roads: Why are cyclists usually found in the "Streets" movements?

A "road" describes just that, a thru-way. A "street" is a road plus sidewalk. The word street is attached also to a lot of negative connotations too. "Mean streets", "bad side of the street", etc.

I think you do have a point but will anyone heed it?

Most cyclists when they complain about what they ride on tend to talk about the road. ie potholes, poor design, lack of bike lane, debris, etc.

Within a 10 minute walk from my home in an old established area in Toronto there
are 29 Avenues, 5 Roads, 3 Drives, 2 Blvds, 1 Place, 1 Crescent and 1 Street.

The Street is the major arterial one with a streetcar line, the others are quiet residentials with little traffic - none more negative or dangerous than the other.

In this case, the name of a thing matters quite a bit.

A "Road" is merely a way to get from here to somewhere. People only pass through on a road, and we only pass each other on our roads; we rarely linger on roads.

A "Street" is a public space; it is itself a destination, yet also allows us and others to travel through it. People do stuff on a street; it's where many of us conduct our business. We engage with each other on our streets.

The hallways of Malls are often configured to simulate a street-like environment, yet these are not truly public spaces.

Roads have only one purpose, to be traveled upon; but streets have many uses besides that. Ancient Rome built only 29 roads, but it's larger cities each had many more streets than that.

Homes and businesses are often placed placed right next to a street. However, homes and businesses are always set well back from a road.

Some have said that the media's so-called "War on the car" was more a war against roads, it is really an attempt of the city to reclaim these spaces and turm them into something more street-like. But because many don't understand the nuance of the terms "street" and "road", the title "war on the car" was deemed to be more palatable.

We have named those spaces between our properties. Sometimes the suffix is any one of "Avenue," "Street," "Road," "Crescent," "Place," "Drive," "Court, " Boulevard,"or even others.

This naming does not mean that all those named "Roads" are in fact roads, nor those with the names "Street" are in fact streets. Many actually behave as something other than what they are named.

Lake Shore Blvd, from the Humber all the way east, is primarily a road. However, through South Etobicoke, Lake Shore Blvd is much more a street.

Bathurst is a street from the lake to about the old Algonquin shore. From there all the way north, it really wants to be a road.

Yonge Street is a street from the lake about Hog's Hollow, where it becomes a road as it continues North through the city.

Eglinton Ave is primarily a street from about Weston Rd in the west to about Laird in the East; the rest of the time Eglinton would primarily be a Road.

All of the highways and expressways in the city are pure roads, as are our active railroads. Some could even argue that (sections, at least, of) the Martin-Goodman trail is more road like than trail-like.

Be not fooled by the name; instead look at the behaviour of how that space is utilized.

The question is: Are you happy with how those spaces behave?

I do not disagree with you. I do wonder though if this is all worth the effort of expending any energy on? The only difference between the two when you look them up in the dictionary is that one is a thruway usually consisting of pavement but a dirt path could fit the definition too. All that is really added for streets is a "sidewalk".

You have pointed out that people already do make the distinction.

Let us say for a minute that we should expend energy on this. Your demarcation points are way off. Eglinton is a street from the DVP to Birchmount. Lawrence Ave between Pharmacy and Kennedy is a flourishing street that really sucks as a road for all road users. Many of the stores along this stretch are also meeting places for community, much more so than any store along Yonge St.

One of the earliest advocacy endeavours by cyclists was actually around roads rather than streets. Prior to the development of the bicycle, only streets were paved. Since early bicycles didn't have pneumatic tires (or any sort of suspension system like stagecoaches did), the move to pave roads was led by cyclists.

Of course now that those infernal cars have gone dominatng the roads that we fought so hard to get paved, cycling advocacy on roads tends to focus on wide paved shoulders, and avoiding prohibitions from various roads (e.g. the work being done in Sault Ste. Marie around maintaining access to Hwy. 17 out towards Sudbury).

Within the city, sure you're going to see more alignment with groups like "Streets are for People", since there are more streets, and that's where most city riding happens. But move to the provincial level, and suddenly the leading advocacy group is "Share the Road".

Your historical reminder is is actually a part of my point for starting this discussion.

Many of those in the streets movements want to rid urban centres of entirely of roads, and sometimes, even rid the spaces of private automobiles.

Many of those in the roads movements want to rid that space of bikes, and anything else that could get in their way, including parked cars.

Our province, ie the HTA , does not differentiate between roads and streets; it designates all of these spaces a "Highway," and applies the same rules to all of them all of the time.

My question is, is the HTA correct; that these are all the same?
If so, then why do we even have terms like "street" and "road" and why are there people working in the "streets" and "roads" movements?

And, should cyclists even be aligning themselves up with streets movements? What in it for us when we do?

Or should we start putting more (if not all of our) focus on roads?

Lastly: Does the "Complete Streets" movement walk the balance between streets and roads, or is it clearly in the "streets" camp?

Be not fooled by the name??
Are you saying the names are sometimes wrong? Should we work to change them?
You're going to get a lot of angry people saying we're wasting time and money that could be spent elsewhere.
I understand your point, that we need to calm our routes and make them more people friendly but let's not get into a word game.

Streets can have street merchants, businesses.
Roads only have roadside attractions.

We take "road trips", but not "street trips."

We have "Street life" but "Roak Kill."

There can be "private roads" but we take it for granted that streets are public spaces.

If they are so interchamngeable why do we have the two terms "Rialroads" and "Streetcars"?

Why do we have expressions such as "City Streets" and "Country Roads" or "Rural Roads"?

We have many of other expressions in english that help us to see this difference. Here's a few, but I'm sure you could come up with more:
Word on the street
Street smarts
Man in the street
Right up your street

I think that there is really quite a difference beteen streets and roads. I'd start with the idea that "Streets" are exclusively an urban space.

But that doesn't mean that I'm advocating for Bathurst Street to be renamed as Bathurst Road. It just means that I'm asking for people to recognise that sometimes Bathurst behaves more like a street than a road, and sometimes it bhaves more like road than street.

The question was never: Should we rename Basthurst Street to Bathurst Road?
But rather, have we struck the right balance between the two kinds of spaces on Bathurst?
And if not, how should we change it?

Interesting,
never come across this argument (thought train) before.
Many European cities still see themselves as a number of villages that have grown together. As such there are many centers of streets connected by roads. This is also visible in Toronto, although perhaps less obvious.
However I guess this highlights the problem with with defining what is a road. How long is a road? Highway 7 is a road, but what about Bloor/Danforth from Mount Pleasant to Broadview? Alternately what is the difference between Danforth and Kingston road?
I suggest that roads aren't defined by length but instead by the places they connect. I argue that cyclists should be represented in both settings.

I fully appreciate what you are trying to do here, but getting some definitions accepted here on this blog or even by all advocacy and political groups won't really help. People being people, they will use them and understand these two words as interchangeable. No amount of "nailing down" these terms will have any useful effect when it comes to broader public debate and opinion. Short version - I, like others, think this is a waste of energy other than as a mental exercise.

It's all flat to me, but here are some differences between roads & streets:

STREET
a public thoroughfare, in a village, town, or city, including sidewalks, together with adjacent buildings, houses, etc. * key word: through

ROAD
made for traveling between two or more points * key word: between

\ref. online websters dic.